In attendance : Richard Perrin – Sage Technical Support Team

Shea Hindman - Business Objects

Steve Fewster – MPS

The meeting would prove to be a difficult one, since each user had different priorities and requirements. However it would prove to be an interesting meeting.

As I was doing most of the talking it was difficult to record totally accurate minutes, so apologies in advance for errors and omissions.

There are some inserted documents at the end, one from a fellow RSIG member on his thoughts and some information from Panacea.

The Meeting opened with the leading questions:

Approx. 12 people attended the meeting. From a show of hands more than half the group used the standard Report Writer module. Platform usage was split almost 50/50 between UNIX and Windows NT/2000.

2 Users had purchased COGNOS, only one actually used it.

Seagate Crystal Reports was used by 5 users.

1 User had bought Business Objects

Approx. half the group used standard Microsoft tools such as Excel and Access. These can be very effective, proven by the excellent demo given by Steve from MPS.

Most UNIX users used Transoft middleware, 1 user had Informix ODBC and another used Oracle.

The other Windows users had SQL ODBC drivers.

The question asked of Richard from Sage concerned the future of the standard report writer and was there any truth in the rumour concerning a possible replacement with Crystal Reports.

The response was that Report Writer will still be supported in future versions . It is a supported module in the new Sage Line 500 V5.

There are other options with Report Writer, such as RSL, did anyone actually use it ?

Answer was no.

When a RW report is compiled it creates an RSL output file which can be amended. This could be used as a shortcut for developers. It could be used as the source for batch files.

A question was asked from the floor, How do we know this feature exists ??

The facility exists as part of the standard package and can be switched on in the system keys. The reseller should have this information.

Its ability to perform drill downs on data, security , ease of use and the ability to perform snap shots of the data. Uses data catalogs.

In my experience these are quite often purchased from the reseller, or consultancy services provided to implement on site.

Reason for choosing : Unanimous answer was price. Yes it’s a cheap tool to use. Crystal developer is around £ 400 with free runtimes for web publishing or executable runtimes.

The demonstration provided to ISTUG did not cover the reporting tool to any depth whatsoever. A recommendation was made to Shea from Business Objects that a product demonstration using Sage demo data should be arranged. This will be requested for the next meeting.

Business Objects Developer £2095

Runtime FOC

Seagate Crystal Reports Developer £350

Runtime FOC

I attended this group and felt distinctly sorry for the co-ordinator who was working hard to sort out requirements. Thought I would put down a few thoughts for you.

a. With RW being a module price it is hard to argue it's purchase on an NT install as Crystal, Bus Objects, Cognos etc will all see the database without the use of additional software.

b. For UNIX, RW is the most powerful number crunching product available, with the downside of poor presentation.

c. With UNIX as we look at the linking Windows based applications we have to introduce another layer of translation software which DOES effect performance.

When looking at product functionality group a. and c. have little in common with b.

Reporting tools are complex and there are several methods for implementation. All of which involve cost/resource.

1. Learn it yourself. This requires considerable education time, and use at least a day a week. 2. Have it set up with specialist reports written through resellers. 3. Have the reseller set up 'Universe'/Data Warehouse, to simplify user access.

If you bought the module SOP it would be a core part of your daily business. For RW to be as useful it needs to be given the same attention, otherwise see 2. above.

As with any tool there are a number of features and methods you have to be aware of to maximise your results. These are not well documented Skills in RW are disappearing as NT prevails. Sage are not making any real effort to develop the product.

Where users are naive

99.9% of RW support calls are training/ consultancy issues.

No 2 people will write reports the same way. Asking for an amendment to a report can take almost as long as a re-write.

It takes years to get to an advanced stage of knowledge.

Some form of data warehousing to link files is essential.

Complex reports can take as long to write as programs. Some have taken me as long as 2 weeks to analyse, write, test, amend, format and document.

When commissioning a report it is almost impossible to get the requester to complete any analysis of requirement. I insist my people produce a layout in spreadsheet/diagram form with examples of data/totalling. Needless to say they will miss something on their first few attempts and you can expect re-writes, but it is essential to establish the approach.

Utilising Business information has serious cost implications. However, there are considerable benefits as can be seem in all product demonstrations.

P.S. I am inclined to offer assistance to my fellow users, but there is nothing I can do that a good re-seller cannot. However, if you need a "what you can do" presentation at next SIG I can certainly do this. It would have to be on 2 levels, basic function, and more advanced functions. PLEASE NOTE I AM ONLY THINKING FOR UNIX USERS.

P.P.S. One function we lost years ago was T2000 Data manager. This was a great feature(although limited) and gave facility to create your own data entry/amend screens which you could link to other tables. It would be very useful to me if Sage would release to us again. Alternatively provide us with a T2000 system with just the rp module to use.

If Sage can get me T2000 demo system then I would be happy to show what you can do with this.

From the short conversation that we had I understand you are looking to replace the existing Crystal Decisions reporting Tool with a more comprehensive Business Intelligence Solution. Incit@ offers the best of all worlds as you will see from the information on the web site.

Importantly, in the context of your own requirements, is the ease of use and return on investment that you would achieve from this change. Additionally a MUST when looking at any BI tool is to ensure that the Universe for the application exists. Without this universe you will have to invest in extensive amounts of consultancy to identify and create the appropriate data fields and links.

Panacea have produced and deployed their own Sage Universe for Business Objects and are now recognised as a market leader in this field with both organisations.

The pricing for Business Objects is dependant upon the type of user and the activity they perform. For example we are able to provide reports via the intranet that are effectively FOC to the receiver. For individuals who may wish to drill down further on this information a seat can be bought for £310. At the other end of the scale are the administrative and supervisors modules at £2095 each, although to put this in context you only need one each.

To get the most out of a Business Objects Pilot, you will need a Universe. Without this you could waste a lot of time trying to create reports from the right data source. As previously mentioned Panacea have already done this hard work and therefore we work recommend you use our knowledge and services to help develop a successful Pilot – after all, it is in no ones interest to have an unsuccessful Pilot.

With this in mind I would recommend that you invest in a proven Panacea Business Objects Pilot. We have run a number of such schemes, would be happy to give you references and importantly – all have been successful.

We would put a consultant on site with you for 3 days. They would read some of your data, load the product and universe and create reports against your requirements. This system would be available to you on a 30 day evaluation. Importantly you will have had some basic training, be using your own data and have worthwhile reports to review.

Remember – every customer who has gone through this procedure with us has gone on to invest further in Business Objects. Why? – because they have instantly seen the benefits that our solution provides to their businesses.

The main reasons we predominantly use Business Objects is it ease of use. This starts with the fact that data is READ, not imported. For example, with Cognos you need to create a data cube. Iif the information is not in the cube you need to go and re-create a new cube. With Business Objects it effectively creates its own cubes on the fly and can instantly use the data required.

Additionally Business Objects is one of the easiest tools on the market for ordinary workers to use, especially for those people who wish to create their own reports. This means that they are not relying on administrators every time they wish to change and create new reports. The benefits of which are many, not least that you are empowering them to make decisions faster on more accurate information.

• A similar request will be made to Cognos and Seagate for Crystal Reports
• Would RSIG members like to demonstrate any of their own reports?
• Stephen Purdie of Briton Fire has offered assistance with a Report Writer demo.
• Next meeting 18/9/02 @ Warwick

David Patterson

IT Manager

Thompson Plastics Ltd

June 2002